New Boiler quotes/suggestions

[Milleniumaire]

Hi, I've just received some quotes for installing a new boiler in my home, and not only do they vary massively on price, but also the equipment being suggested. I would appreciate your comments/thoughts.

My house has 5 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms and is occupied by both myself, my wife and three sons aged 15, 13 and 9. Two of the bathrooms are used simultaneously each morning, but our current 11 year old boiler (Saunier Duval Thelia Twin 28e) can only cope with supplying water/pressure to one shower at a time and any attempt to use a 2nd shower simultaneously, or turning on any other taps results in reduced pressure.

It is vital that the new system meets the following criteria:
- More efficient and reliable
- Cheaper to run
- MUST PROVIDE ENOUGH WATER/PRESSURE FOR TWO SHOWERS SIMULTANEOUSLY

The first quote was provided by a well know, large UK organisation, who also measured the flow rate as 20l/min at 1 bar. They said the mains pressure was extremely good (can't remember if they provided me with a figure, but 7 bar seems to spring to mind!):

Boiler: Worcester Greenstar Highflow 440 CDi High Efficiency £2081.72

Horizontal flue terminal: £188.56
Combi for Combi Boiler Replacement Installation £614.69
Connect Boiler Electrics & Test £158.62
£961.87
Install mini pressure expansion vessel £69.38
Flue plume displacement kit £105.07
Flue plume displacement 1 mtr extension x 2 £64.08
Flue plume displacement 93' elbow £45.00
Condensate waste to external soil pipe £28.21
Install black plastic pipe (32mm x 3mtrs) x 2 £66.08
External condensate connection £52.16
Install copper pipe (15mm x 3mtrs) x 2 £89.60
Install copper pipe (22mm x 3mtr) x 2 £107.66
Install copper gas pipe work (22mm x 3mtr) £53.83
Insulate heating system pipe x 4 £25.84
Insulate heating system pipe x 4 £22.20
Other building work £147.39
Install boiler auto by pass £245.10
Waste collection and disposal £41.12
£1,162.72
Install Magnaclean Professional 22mm magnetic filter £218.55
System water treatment and powerflush £505.18
£723.73
Total price inc. VAT £4,930.04

The second quote is from a local company. This company didn't measure the flow rate or pressure, but did turn taps on around the house and made an assumption of what the measurements were!

Worcester Bosch 37cdi boiler
Standard Flue
Programmable room stat
powerflush system
X100 inhibitor
Total price inc. VAT: £2,895

When I called this local company back to inform of the measured flow rate, they suggested that maybe the Worcester Bosch 42cdi would probably be better as this can handle a continuous flow rate of 17l/min.

The third quote is from a local plumber who discussed the installation of an unvented cylinder (megaflow) and system boiler. This was partly as a result of him fitting this type of system for a friend of mine who lives in the same area. He didn't take any measurements, but assumed we would be getting the same as my friend. I haven't yet received any prices from him.

One concern I have about the 440 high flow boiler is that it has an internal water storage and that once this is depleted the boiler will not be able to continue to supply the same flow/pressure to two showers operating simultaneously as it only has a 29.2kW output, compared to the continuous 42kW output of the 42cdi.

A few questions spring to mind:
- Would we benefit from a Megaflow system with 20l/min flow rate or is this just too expensive an alternative for any small benefit it might give over a larger boiler?
- Which system would be best suitable to drive two showers simultaneously.

[absolheat]

I would fit a vaillant ecotec 837. I have run two ex power shower of it. The vaillant is in my opinion far better quality. It has a far better pedigree than any of the worcester range. The only reason to go with the worcester is if it has to be floor standing. Worcester are not the same manufacturer they used to be and are still living on their old reputation.They use too much plastic. I have been called to no end of greenstars with pinholed plastic. You will find the installers with the best reputations in your area fit vaillant. If you must fit a worcester the 440 is there best offering.

How much cold have you got coming into your home. I've had lots of people ask for a high powered boiler that don't have enough incoming mains flow. You can't get more water out of a combi or unvented cylinder than you put into it.

The first quote of £4900 is taking the p*** Grit bas by any chance.
The second seems reasonable if you live in the south but think you can do better. I also would insist on a magnetic filter they make a lot of difference to the efficiency and longevity of the system.
I still think you are better with a vaillant and you'll get a better warrenty. Vaillant give our customers 3 years. If you buy the same boiler off who I suspect you got your first quote you get 1.

[Milleniumaire]

Hi absolheat, thanks for the feedback, I will look into the Valliant range.

You guessed right about the first quote, it was about twice as much as I was expecting!!!!!

It surprises me they are so open about their prices. A quick scan of the internet and I see I could get the 440 at £500 less than they are quoting it. In a way I can understand they might bump up their labour charges, but I don't see how they can justify their parts prices as it is so obvious they are putting on a huge markup.

The only figures I have for the water coming in is 20l/min. I'm not sure what the pressure is, but I get the impression it is good. We live in Wetherby, North of Leeds, West Yorkshire.

The magnaclean filter does seem quite good and I agree is probably worth fitting with a new boiler, and at the discounted price of £218.55 it's a bargain Considering I could get one at retail for under £90, I dare say the trade price is much less, so they are charging at least £150 to install it!

[absolheat]

I think the cost of the auto bypass is the most laughable. They cost less than £20 quid. We fit an 837 for around £2500inc magnetic cleaner. I think thats what you should be looking around.

[Leeman]

Hi Milleniumaire. Just came across your message from January, whilst hunting the internet for exactly the same kind of help! We live just down the road from you in LS17. I'm wondering firstly which boiler you went for and secondly whether you would recommend the person who installed it. I presume you didn't go with the first quote?!

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